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  1. #29

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    The 33% method assumes that all sails pull from the same point and the geometry between sailor boom and mast position is always constant. Which sounds highly unlikely to me...
    BUT even if it is true it so much better to learn to feel when they are in the right place with equal pull on both hands rather than blindly trusting a tape measure. This is the real flaw in the method. So much of windsurfing is about feeling and trimming your board and sail while sailing, looping or wave riding, requiring responsive dynamic feedback. That also extends to setting up equipment, and the tape measure does not help you learn those skills.

    I put my harness lines in exactly the same place for 5.5 and (older 10cm longer boom) 5.8. Works fine. I also set my lines for a bit of pull on the front hand and, like Arf, put a piece of tape around the boom for 5.5/5.8 position so I know they will be right for my most used sail.
    http://forwards4cowards.blogspot.com/ a blog about looping

    UPDATED 31 Dec 2012
    Bumper Christmas

  2. #30
    Senior Member Asle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod View Post
    The 33% method assumes that all sails pull from the same point and the geometry between sailor boom and mast position is always constant. Which sounds highly unlikely to me...
    BUT even if it is true it so much better to learn to feel when they are in the right place with equal pull on both hands rather than blindly trusting a tape measure. This is the real flaw in the method. So much of windsurfing is about feeling and trimming your board and sail while sailing, looping or wave riding, requiring responsive dynamic feedback. That also extends to setting up equipment, and the tape measure does not help you learn those skills.

    I put my harness lines in exactly the same place for 5.5 and (older 10cm longer boom) 5.8. Works fine. I also set my lines for a bit of pull on the front hand and, like Arf, put a piece of tape around the boom for 5.5/5.8 position so I know they will be right for my most used sail.
    You know what Rod, you just did a basher. Are you to infected by the virus?

    I think most believe you are right. What we need to win this war agains the misleading Guy Cribb is numbers. We can be the knights helping the intermediate that read windsurf uk in the right direction with facts against Cribbs facts. That should be a noble course.

    Are you afraid Cribb is right? What is there to loose?

  3. #31
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    It's easier to type on the keyboard that's to hand than to get a boom and a tape measure. Best way to get those numbers would be to head to a contest and measure them yourself. That would also help provide some consistency in measurement method.

  4. #32
    Senior Member Derek Rides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod View Post
    The 33% method assumes that all sails pull from the same point

    Which of course they don't, even the same model sail from the same brand but different model years..

    Case to point North Voodoo wave sail 98 model, lovely sail, lines and pull quite forward, then along comes Bruce Heggie I think it was as team rider, the next year, same sail same dimensions, harness lines back nearly two inches... Why? ex Gaastra rider liked his back hand so the flow point got shifted aft, ruined a perfectly nice sail...

    But makes a total nonesense of fixed dimensions in regards to harness lines (and they didn't change the printed dots they used to put on the sail as a guide)..
    Here to "De"Ride cut 'n paste bores and help write stuff in red whenever necessary.

  5. #33
    Member SeanBo's Avatar
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    I will stick my hand up and go in the 33% camp

    I have been on two 'days' with Guy and the most important thing I learnt was correct rig setup (I learnt other stuff as well, but the rigging advice made the biggest impact on my day to day sailing)

    Being well off of a pro, I need little time saving hints and tips to help me rig up quickly and easily and as so many things are interrelated it helps if you know you are in the ballpark for everything. I use the elastic trick and rarely move my lines once I am on the water. If I do move them I tend to vary the distance between them by adjusting the front line position only.

    I used to use the 'stand on the beach with the sail flying and find the balance point' method before going with the elastic, but was often frustrated on the first few runs as I struggled to move the harness lines about to get them right

    I have measurements on the boom and loads of indentations, but the elastic things works faster for me
    ,,`,,I suppose it will all make sense when we grow up,,`,,



  6. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asle View Post
    You know what Rod, you just did a basher. Are you to infected by the virus?

    I think most believe you are right. What we need to win this war agains the misleading Guy Cribb is numbers. We can be the knights helping the intermediate that read windsurf uk in the right direction with facts against Cribbs facts. That should be a noble course.

    Are you afraid Cribb is right? What is there to loose?
    There are a lot of us saying the same thing here. What we might lose is time. I don't care if Guy is right in his measurements or not – that's a red herring.


    This is a fine example of where a theory outgrows the question it is supposed to answer.
    Best stay focussed on the problem.
    If people ask me where to set their harness lines I generally reply that the lines should sit opposite the pull of the sail so that you have even weight on your hands. This is 'about' a third back on the sail from the mast. It will vary from sail to sail. Best hang off your rig on the beach, set the lines inside your hands, and go sailing.
    Simples.

    You can instead use all sorts of gadgets and measurements to get the lines to where someone else uses them – but that detaches you from your own kit, and probably stops you ever being a better sailor. Your focus then becomes on the theory or on the tape measure or on the elastic gadget, when it should be on the feel.
    A good sailor knows where the lines should be, and that's on feel.

    Top slalom sailors do own tape measures. But they won't set their harness lines up with them – that's arse about face. What some might do is take measurements that they can later reproduce.
    I have seen Antoine Albeau with a tape measure, jotting down mast foot and footstrap and fin measurements as he fine tunes a board. But this is a guy who has several prototypes to use and tune – and he passes back measurements to the shaper. In the end, the pro sailors like Albeau only use measurements to keep detail of fine tuning. The tuning itself is done on feel, and over time that allows your instincts to develop.

    With harness line positioning you should set them up on the beach as described. Then to test the beach setting you might sail along and try and take each hand off the boom – if you can't then the lines are in the wrong place.
    If it's a bit out and you are just out enjoying yourself then it doesn't matter.
    If you are spinning out then shift the lines back a bit.
    Last edited by basher; 19th August 2013 at 10:11 AM.
    Blank space

  7. #35
    Senior Member jknhismassivevan's Avatar
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    FFS I can't believe that the old ladies of the forum are still squablling about stuff they seem to know little about and haven't been out and actually measured.

    Back OT because someone has to, on Sat I was nicely tuned on my 7.0SCR and 110 Mistral with the lines set as previously posted at 29% and tried moving them back towards the 33% point and it didn't work for me, just couldn't get the same acceleration, total boardspeed and pointing so back to 29/30% for me.
    The Windsurfer Formally Known as JKRR - TWFKJKRR or "Him in the Red Shorts"

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