7th May 2013, 08:23 PM #8
Finally something a bit innovative in Surfing shapes, besides Slater first going shorter and now even shorter but thicker (like windsurfboards!!), there didnt happen a lot the last 15years design wise.
Bouke, if you made a really thin board like this? how flexible would it be in feel? I mean 4times more flexible as virt nothing like now isnt a lot.
So can you make a windsurfboard with a bit of a "controlled" allover flex like with surfboards? Is that posibble with Sandwich etc etc and still be a bit durable?188x90kg 40y old, Supper/Windsurfer.
Witchcraft Fextail96 + Goya Quad84
Hotsails Firelight 6.0+ 5.3+3.4 / KS3 5.5+ 5.2+4.6+4.0 + Ultra + CAAS masts, lots of fins.
SUP: Starboard Allstar12.6x26.5 / Airborne8.8x31.5x123l / Pro8.5x29x112l / Gong incredible longboard 10x25x115l
7th May 2013, 08:46 PM #9
I'm quite intelligent but I can't follow grumpf's post.
Obviously he's so ahead of us that it's difficult to keep up.
On the other hand he could be a bit more coherent here.
Are we talking about shorter boards (like the chopper - itself based on the surfer's Fish, not new at all, I have one) , or are we talking about flexing boards, like the hollow construction Evos we had about 3 years ago ?
Controlled flexing can offer advantages in a turn, but not when jumping.
Last edited by basher; 7th May 2013 at 08:52 PM.
7th May 2013, 09:07 PM #10
Surfers are taking their inspiration from kite surfboard shapes, kite surfboards are stronger and their rails tend to be faster as are their rocker profiles, this surf kiddy i wish i could remember his name has been following our kite designs with his aussie custom shapes.
Windsurf being as ultra conservative as it is, wouldn't dream of giving anything to kiting, even though kiting is in a way it's ******* offspring.
So the history of this story goes back five years or more when Tony Logosz who is/was a fine board shaper in his own right, decided to try a thin style board, I've told the tale before ages ago, but back then, kite boards were still also following the strong stiff light mantra carried over from windsurf thinking, so it was just a divinicell jobbie.
Fast forward to today, and a walk down the beach to Jurassic Park where a bunch of Fat Witchcrafts (must be some sort of team russia/slovakia/e.europa)and Quattro's lay unused all week despite nuking winds and big waves with their array of fins and shapes basically locked into stuff Logosz was doing ten years ago and the conversation went what could we do now, with all this tech.
Then me cajoling, ordering at least one for my own use based on this new kiteboard we're about to launch, ironically a five fin, multi option 5'2".
There are flex things around apparently, a lot of us (distributors) still have functioning markets for windsurfing, there's a brand called air inside, which controls flex pneumatically apparently and Patric Diethelm is also messing about, so maybe all this chatter, which trust me, gets read globally, is having some effect.
But fundamentally none of this wants to be done without reason, which is two fold, thin and reflex flex for load and pop, and thin rail radius has been proved to stay on the plane longer in turns thanks to the lack of slowing action of the large radius that current boards have which slows things down (think football being dragged) during turns.
So we have two potential benefits.
There is however a downside, the downside is slow to plane initially, due to the lack of volume, but a degree of extra width can deal with that as proved by the original model boards called the "Trip" one of which was sent to that Tiesda fella, but you know Starboard, they'll never innovate unless someone has already proved it.
So there you have the whole tale, I've ordered one for myself and we'll see, it'll be a laser cut, wood foam composite and the target is to have these things some way down the path with a sub €1000 retail price tag and manufactured stateside thus breaking the bloody Cobra monopoly if it comes off it'll be interesting to say the least, if it doesn't I won't have gone to the retirement home without one last try..
7th May 2013, 09:38 PM #11
Sandwich makes the skin stiffer to forces perpendicular to the plane but it does not make the board as a whole any stiffer. I´ve made full sandwich surfboards that really flexed a few cm. I think it could be quite durable too because it absorbs more energy. But even if the low volume could be sailable, it may prove to be very limited in less constant conditions. And this is something I am still thinking about but can´t find anything that even just has a small chance to make it work.Bouke
Witchcraft Sailboards Fuerteventura
7th May 2013, 09:55 PM #12
More gobbledygook from grumpf.
What actually happens is we cross-pollinate between sports, occasionally and unexpectedly creating a new hybrid.
This development stuff has been going on for years - obviously without grumpf noticing. The shorter waveboard revolution followed what was happening in surfing - and I remember that grumpf was first to deride shorter boards..
If kiters or wake boarders have discovered something that works for their sport then fine - sometimes other sports take the idea and apply it to different needs.
But watch out. Windsurfing applies different loads on a board than surfing or wake boarding or kiting.
So adaption is the key, not simple copying.
We've already had several years of CPO trying to sell us surfboard ideas on here - which he then tested on an old shape windsurf board on a lake and then told us how waveboard design should go.
You also have to remember that grumpf was the one who said nothing was changing in windsurfing whilst siting the tri-fin boards of the 1980s as examples of modern repetition - ignoring the new hull shapes and shorter boards we now use, which have never been seen before.
No wonder the Mistral board brand died.
Last edited by basher; 7th May 2013 at 11:54 PM.
7th May 2013, 11:07 PM #13
I've ridden a flexible windsurf board before, but it was a long time ago.
It was a longboard, and I was surfing it along a river, towed by a boat.
It started getting more flexible every 1/2 mile from delamination, and eventually snapped.
There is a good chance it was an ancient board thats been rotting in the lake for 5 years, but I did not pay enough attention back then to be sure.* -Scourge of the Seven Seas-*
- Discontinued :-)
“As I bit into the nectarine, it had a crisp juiciness about it that was very pleasurable - until I realized it wasn't a nectarine at all, but A HUMAN HEAD!!”
7th May 2013, 11:19 PM #14
There's all those inflatable SUP boards too.
Imagine how flexible they'd be if you didn't fully inflate them.
How come people haven't used that idea in windsurf boards yet? - Probably because it's a crap idea.